I've been a long time fan of the Rich Roll podcast and was so psyched to hear that he was able to sit down and chat with Courtney Dauwalter. I ended up listening to the podcast, but also then watched the video of the podcast for the second time on YouTube. I highly recommend watching the conversation if you have the time so you can get the full effect of the fun banter between Rich and Courtney.
There's just something about Courtney that is so refreshing. She's at the top of her game when it comes to ultrarunning, but she's no super human. In fact, she just DNFed at Hardrock. No matter what she's doing, she does it with a smile. Gotta love that she can be in the middle of a grueling climb at Hardrock at something like 12,000 ft and still be telling jokes. (Q: Why is the desert never hungry? A: Because all of the sand...which is there.") I love the way she thinks about pain. At some point during a really long race, she'll enter what she calls her "pain cave". She explained to Rich that she used to try to push off getting to the pain cave for as long as possible. However, recently, Courtney talks about arriving to the pain cave as somewhere she wants to get. Instead of just visualizing sitting in the pain cave, she now visualizes herself with a shovel in that pain cave and trying to make it bigger. It's a different mindset that allows her to accept pain and even embrace it as part of the whole process of running an ultra. Back to the point of being human, she still knows when it's time to pull the plug, or she relies on her crew to pull the plug for her. Some examples include her crew making the call to end her FKT (Fastest Known Time) attempt on the Colorado Trail because of acute bronchitis and ending her Hardrock race because of stomach issues.
I also really appreciate that Courtney talked about what she can do to ensure her longevity in the sport. It's cool to hear that she is making changes in her routine to avoid injuries. She had some major issues back in 2019 that really forced her to become more disciplined about core work, stretching and foam rolling. Of course, Rich had to bring up her garbage diet and that maybe making some changes here could also lead to better performance. It's endearing hearing about her love of jellybeans and nachos, but I'm sure over time, as she gets older and more experienced, she might make some small changes to her diet. It's admirable in a way that she isn't willing to give up the joy of eating what she loves in order to make small gains in performance. What we can see now, is that what she's doing is working, so there really isn't a reason to make any drastic changes. It's so apparent that Courtney just loves what she's doing. She's doing it for the joy of it. It's inspiring that she can be so joyful about it, but also know that deep down, she's a true competitor who wants to win. She doesn't have a coach or a set training plan, but she trains hard. Not having a training plan allows her to listen to her body and adjust her workouts based on how she's feeling.
Another thing I love about Courtney is that whenever she talks about herself, she always refers to "we". This just stresses the value she puts on her crew, which always involves her husband, Kevin. She truly sees her sport as a team sport with her crew and knows that she couldn't do it without them. Her parents are super supportive and that's also so great to see. I love that Salomon TV movie where her parents are there at Western States wearing their Leopard in a Hammock t-shirts. Only the most supportive parents would be happy wearing a shirt with a graphic of their daughter's hallucination that she experienced during a 240 mile race.
Obscured, but as a super fan, I had to have the shirt!
Courtney is the embodiment of grit. There's the famous story of her at the end of the Run Rabbit Run 100 mile race where she lost her vision but kept going. She went about 4 miles almost completely blind, tripping and falling all over the trail. She finally made it to an aid station and had a volunteer narrate the last 6 miles of the race as she ran. Totally mind-blowing. Thankfully, the condition was temporary and her vision came back in 5-6 hours. It also takes a certain grit and stubbornness to win a last person standing race. At Bigs Backyard Ultra, in 2020, she won with 68 laps (of 4.16667 miles each) for a total of about 283 miles. It came down to Courtney and Harvey Lewis and they both really wanted to break the 300 mile mark, but Lewis tapped out at 67 loops.
I really admire Courtney's willingness to try and fail at new things. This year she attempted the Barkley Marathons for the first time. I love this photo below from her Instagram. It perfectly captures the anxious excitement she had before the race. With horrendous weather conditions including freezing temps and hail, she was able to finish the first 20ish mile loop but came in too late for the second loop. Only 2 participants finished the "fun run" this year, which was 3 loops. I'm sure she will be back to attempt Barkleys again. It's cool that she was able to tag onto some veterans to get a good feel for what the course could be like.
Yes, be very afraid.
As someone who is aspiring to be a better ultrarunner, I love listening to Courtney talk about problem-solving. Her attitude towards the process is very healthy. She never gets frustrated. She just learns from experience and even then, she knows she can't count on things going the way she expects them to go. At the Moab 240, she was able to take a 1 min dirt nap and feel completely refreshed, so she thought she had the sleep thing figured out. Fast forward to her next 200 mile race, the Tahoe 200 and she just could not replicate that 1 min nap. She counted on mashed potatoes at Moab, but couldn't stomach them at Tahoe. Her crew figured out pancakes were the only solid food that would stay down, so then it was pancakes for the rest of the race. But that's what she loves about the sport. It's the constant learning and problem-solving that keeps it interesting. We're always evolving and changing. Even day to day, a run can feel great or horrible, sometimes with no explanation as to why. It's being able to roll with it that helps us not just in running, but in all facets of life.
If you end up listening to or watching the Rich Roll podcast and want more Courtney, I also highly recommend this conversation with Billy Yang, which I've listened to many times. Looking forward to seeing how UTMB goes at the end of the month. Go Court!
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